A reader took issue with my post about climate change. Here is his comment and my reponse. Forgive me if I am a bit terse. I just finished moving and am a bit stressed. The new place is great though and the new Castle Crusader is finally in shape for Christmas. On to MintMan’s criticism.
“I do not get you climate change denialists(sp).”
What kind of ad hominem label is that? I never denied that climate changes. It is childish labels like that dominating the AGW “debate”. The GW’s rant and rave but when it comes to accurate descriptions of ANYTHING, climate or opponents they fall back on classic propaganda techniques. Your handlers must be proud of how well you have retained their teachings.
“To hold your position, you must believe at least the following three points:”
Ahh, the old “excluded third” argument. Always bull but sometimes entertaining. Pray, go on.
“1. That virtually the entire community of climate researchers is either grossly incompetent or part of an evil conspiracy.”
Here we have the first baloney term; entire community of climate researchers. What a load of garbage! Unless you only talk to the Lefties regarding this matter you know that there are many scientists who certainly disagree with many if not most of the “theories” of the AGW movement. The problem is that since the impetus for this scam came from POLITICIANS rather than scientists it has POLITICIZED climate research. It has been at least ten years since lazy “scientists” with political agendas discovered that they could get funding for just about anything if they included the words Global Warming in the proposal. The sorry truth is that despite the political solid front there is NO DATA AND NO MODEL provided by the AGW crowd that corresponds to reality. The only data they do have is so cooked as to be useless without peer review of the “Recipe” used to “normalize” it. That information has been held as an unreleasable secret by the movement’s “scientists”. IS this science? ALL data and ALL methods must be completely public ESPECIALLY when politicians are involved. Surely you would agree if it were Conservatives heading a silly science movement…like Creationism maybe? Hmm, come to think of it the tactics and methods and attitudes of BOTH movements are eerily similar don’t you think?
As to your assertion that this fictitious consensus exists I must tell you that when the list of hundreds of scientists that supported the U.N. report came out it included many people who had worked on the project but then withdrew their support!!!!! The AGW leaders refused to allow those scientists to withdraw their names from the report since they had contributed to it. No rebuttal was allowed to be amended. Many NON scientists’ names were included as “researchers”. It was as blatantly political a move as you can find.
“I do not know which is the more likely, as both ideas are completely beyond the pale. Assuming that such a world-wide conspiracy including so many people could be kept viable over such a long time is ridiculous even if you do not know from personal experience how scientists think and work. I have also never heard a plausible explanation of what the motivation for such a conspiracy would be. Do you honestly think that significant numbers of people would go to such lengths just to make others needlessly miserable and destroy their “way of live”? People are generally motivated by either self-interest or concern for others, but not by cartoonish evilness and spite that would gain themselves nothing.”
Wow, you are asking for a civics lesson and a history lesson as well as an explanation of common tactics in the more dirty of political arenas. Well, in the hopes that you might actually attempt to process some of what I say, that you will not simply reflect ALL of the information you are about to read from your shiny Leftist armor I will give it a shot.
“I have also never heard a plausible explanation of what the motivation for such a conspiracy would be.”
I told you above. It is a political movement not a scientific one. And just because this one came from the Left you have failed to be sufficiently critical of it. For Pete’s sake, Gore won the NOBEL PEACE PRIZE for his work on it! That should tell you something. Look at a list of PEACE prize winners for the last 50 years and try to find TWO that are worth the spit to drown them. That should have set off alarm bells all over your head!
“I have also never heard a plausible explanation of what the motivation for such a conspiracy would be.”
You haven’t? Who do you talk to? I can give you two huge ones. First is money. IF you look into the whole cap and trade idea and most other schemes for “managing” CO2 they all have in common the effect of making SOMEONE HUGE, fantastic OBSCENE amounts of money or at the least giving them control over those resources in an extra-national extra-constitutional “climate authority”. The second reason is that YES, there are people to whom breaking down traditional Western, Enlightenment culture is VITAL to their interests! For god’s sake they tell you so every day!!! Just go to any Leftist web site or news paper and read how the entire Constitutional system is merely the evil product of the diseased European mind and needs to be replaced with a socialist paradise on Earth where no one goes hungry and no one is offended by reality.
Do you ever THINK about the things you read or do you just wrap yourself in the warm glow of pretend righteousness and put your defense mechanisms to sleep?
In a nutshell the leadership of the 60’s and 70’s counterculture found themselves a new wagon to ride over the head of “The Man” called Global Warming. That leadership was body and soul controlled by the Soviets but were left confused when the U.S.S.R. threw n the Communist towel. They then took over the environmentalist movement and proceeded with an anti-Western scam even bigger than Communism.
“2. That the already observed increase in average temperatures and sea levels, and the loss of arctic ice and glaciers is either invented or part of a some natural process.”
Ignorance is not always bliss is it? Did you know that the arctic and Antarctic ice caps exchange mass regularly? Arctic down = Antarctic up. Check it out. Another inconvenient reality your handlers do not want you thinking about. They also do not want you thinking about the actual data collected that they base that conclusion upon. They do not want you to know that they massaged that data mercilessly to “smooth out” the known errors and inconvenient facts like temps near cities being higher than the surrounding countryside. They certainly do not want you to know that they REFUSE TO RELEASE the founding data or the methods used to massage it. Protecting the privacy of the participating “scientists” you know. SAY WHAT? This is unheard of in REAL SCIENCE my friend!
“…, see point 1. If it is a natural process, then there would still be reason for concern, because all our current population centers and agricultural areas are adapted to the current climate, and adapting to the new one will be a very painful process, euphemistically speaking.”
Do you think about what you are saying as it relates to the larger world or do yo just speak off the top of your head to refute the point you are facing?
If it is a natural process there is NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT as the only source of the change would be Sun! Do you feel that Humanity scurrying around like ants in a panic and wreaking havoc on society and the world economy somehow makes it all better? As to adaptation would it not be better if we accepted the FACT that things like warm periods and ice ages are out of our hands and that it is up to us t be ready to adapt? Oh, and you are not quite right anyway. The warmer the Earth gets the MORE hospitable it becomes for ALL life!!! FACT.
For small bands of coastline lost we gain HUGE areas of formerly arid land that will become fertile and welcoming to man, animal and plants. Your buddies at GW central never told you that for the few trees at the EDGES of a habitat that are lost in a warming trend HUGE numbers of critters and plants EXPAND their ranges. OOH, they didn’t tell you that? BAAD Pretend environmentalists!
If you care about the environment campaign against those “green” light bulbs that contain MERCURY for your kids, grandkids and great grand kids to play in after it accumulates in the landfills.
“This also as a rejoinder to the happy “warm times are fun times” argument, which, from a purely biological perspective, is correct. It just does not do the Italians any good to know that Russian agriculture has profited greatly when the Sahara has reached Rome.”
Such PROFOUND ignorance! WARM = WET you geologically uneducated fool! A few areas like Venice and parts of Holland are screwed, but you know what? They were doomed from the get go. Better enjoy them while they last like the Leaning Tower. Isn’t it “White man’s arrogance” to try to FORCE nature to allow us to keep follies like Venice for another hundred years before the inevitable?
“Nevertheless, the idea that it is a natural process is criticized quite effectively in the article you are trying to trash, but it brings me to the third point you have to believe to be a climate change denialist(sp):”
No, it wasn’t all the article proved is that the author did NOT talk to the skeptics with an open mind and ADMITS that he does not get the science. He makes a lot of ignorant assumptions based on common sense. JUST LIKE the Creationists do!!!
“3. That blowing billions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere does not have any effect whatsoever.”
It does, it promotes plant growth which provides food for more animals!!! Show me ANY evidence from history that it does anything else? The Jurassic and Triassic and Cretaceous had FAR higher CO2 than today, yet no fish dissolved in acid baths and the coasts were not that far from what we know. There was no water world or desert world epoch! EVER!!! In fact the closest to a desert world scenario the Earth has ever seen would be the ICE AGES!!!
You see the core of the Earth is slowly cooling off, that is why the ice ages suddenly started not that long ago. Now if the GW crap is true we should be welcoming it since the REAL data shows that the Earth most likely started sliding into an ice age about 800 years ago. Did you know that at the onset of the last chilly period England went from having Hippos in the Thames to being UNDER ALMOST A MILE OF ICE in only EIGHTY years??? And you think your buddies understand climate? They can hardly tie their shoes when it comes to modeling what the climate will actually DO. The ONLY rational response is for us to be ready to adapt to whatever happens and stop the arrogant breast beating about being responsible for something we are a flea beside.
“And sorry, that is true lunacy.”
Most science is lunacy to those without proper background.
“You can argue maybe about what the exact effects are, when they will take effect, and how strong they will be compared to those resulting from other variables, but the question whether we are influencing the earth’s equilibrium with our habit of burning fossil fuels is a no-brainer.”
No, it is not, it is arrogance to assume that a variable that has NEVER caused disaster no matter how much or how sudden the introduction in the past suddenly become deadly when WE do it.
“It is like a doctor doubling a patient’s blood salt with an injection and saying innocently, hey, it is a very complex system, I do not know what will happen, so why not do it?”
No, it is not, salt is a corrosive and toxic more than small doses. CO2 in the atmosphere is nether. Another emotional bit of “logic” does not make your case any stronger. Go, learn, come back and have a real discussion.
“Yeah, maybe you don’t, but that is no excuse to play with a life. Yeah, maybe we don’t, but that is no excuse to play with the future of humanity.”
THERE ARE SOME THINGS MAN WAS NOT MEANT TO KNOW!
Man, if you were in charge we would live in caves and not dare to turn our huntring weapons to defense lest the gods be offended.
The whining of the ignorant at the educated ones trying to pull the ignorant out of the mud by their shirt tails.
While you whine about a problem you admit may not even BE a problem what are you doing about the REAL and PRESENT problems of sulfur dioxide and mercury? Anything at all or has the Global Warming bandwagon swept you up and made you forget what being environmentalist is all about?