Guy DeWhitney on Government by Heretics Crusaders

My ideal of government:
Un-self-consciously, individual humans that are raised to feel a profound duty to protect all aspects of seldom/individuality that neither “picks someone’s pocket nor breaks someone’s leg” and a profound respect for the notion that we are all one and what goes around not only comes around, it DIRECTLY affects us; i.e. “successful” assholery damages a psyche’s ability to make ‘good’ choices in the future.Guy DeWhitneys Heretics Crusade

But is Moderate Fanaticism That Much Better?


I just read what has to be the most actually moderate piece of writing by a Muslim who is not under fatwa for apostasy!

The piece in question is on Dr. David Liepert’s blog; Liepert seems to be a devout Muslim who also wishes to see reform toward a more humane model, but in his "liberality" there are some land mines of dogma that can blow his whole claim of moderation out of the water to Western minds.

This is the first piece I have read by a non-persecuted-minority Muslim that is honestly self-critical of Islam or any of its practices.  Not one word about how it is the fault of Westerners that we "perceive" heinous things that just aren’t real, not one bit of blame for evil Zionists causing emotional turmoil and riot to break out in otherwise peaceful peoples; but then there are the little bits that tell us that the good Doctor has not let go of the supremacist aspects of traditional Islam at all!

"Islamic punishments for “adultery” have been in the news a lot lately, but it looks to me like the real crime is nothing but barefaced misogyny. First off, it’s always the women being punished, which begs the question, “Where are the men?” But then you have to ask how stoning became part of the “Islamic” punishment for adultery in the first place, when lashing is what the Quran commands. Asking that question opens a whole different kettle of fish entirely.""

This is one of those parts I spoke of: Dear Doctor Liepert, I am SO glad that a woman will ONLY be lashed, maybe hundreds of times, instead of being stoned, this makes me feel SO much more open to the idea of all Muslims as Godly people who seek only peace. This argument might fly with Muslims, but with non-Muslims you just make your situation worse; Westerners reject ALL pain-inflicting cruelty in "judicial" proceedings… ALL!  You also fail to mention the several and sundry Hadithi that support the idea of stoning as being Islamic but was "misplaced" when the Quran was codified. Why? No one can agree.

"Strangely enough, stoning for adultery isn’t mentioned in the Quran at all. The practice was common in the Middle East because it is the prescribed punishment in both the Jewish Torah and the Christian Bible in Leviticus 20:10, and Deuteronomy 22:22.

Modern day Christians like to pretend otherwise, but Jesus (peace be upon him) didn’t change that. In fact, he told his followers:

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Matthew 5: 17

So Christians who want to play the “my faith is better than your faith” game really don’t have a leg to stand on. However, what Jesus (pbuh) did was command, “Let he who is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” Which made executing the punishment problematic. But then, Mohammad (peace be upon him) did him one better.

One better? I am not even a Christian, and I can see the flaw in that argument!

Jesus told the adulteress "go, and sin no more." That is, in my opinion, a hundred times "better" and more merciful and "godly" than if Jesus had called out the whip boy and had her given a hundred stripes. By the way, anything over 40, in those days, was considered equivalent to a death sentence; infection, dehydration and all that you know… Oh, and while we are on the subject, if Muslims "revered" Jesus so much why is this verse totally ignored by Shari’ah? For that matter why did Mohammed ignore ALL of the verses about mercy in the OT and NT, and all of the verses and Hebrew and Christian commentary about Love of God being behind the Law and being of greater import than mechanically enforcing the letter of those laws? Other than a few injunctions about prayer I find these attitudes missing entirely from the Quran and aHadith.

"The Quran is quite clear. From the Suran called An-Nur, meaning, “The Light”, verse 2 states:

The woman and the man guilty of fornication, flog each of them with a hundred stripes: let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of Believers witness their punishment."

Okay then! Personally I go with Hillel when he says that it is no sin to break the Law to fulfill the Higher Law of God’s Love. So, to violate the Sabbath to do a good deed for a neighbor is upholding the higher law… It seems Mohammed did not appreciate the Hillel approach

That means Muslims should have stepped it down a notch. However, they actually stepped it down all the way, because two verses later came the command:

"And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses, flog them with eighty stripes: and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors.

That’s right. The Islamic punishment for accusing someone of adultery without proof is almost as bad as the punishment for the crime.

Doctor, are you unaware of the commandment in the Jewish and Christian religions that forbids bearing false witness?  This is hardly anything original with Mohammed.

Where do we go from here? I’ve read the Hadithi in question, where stoning was invoked under Muhammad (peace be upon him), and one thing is clear: Muhammad (pbuh) hated stoning. Two of the tales recount transgressors obsessively confessing, and Muhammad (pbuh) doing everything he could to try and prevent them from making their confessions! But even Muhammad couldn’t change God’s laws.

So, do you feel that Christians and Jews are somehow LESS devout than Muslims because they are not willing to subordinate their God(Or Allah)-given compassion at the command of a Priest (Imam)? The history of the rabbinical movement and the Hillel school of Pharisaic thought dominate Judeo/Christian ethics!

So instead he prayed, and AlLah change His laws himself, and I think that’s where today’s Muslims should take our lead: There are even tales of a verse that commanded stoning for adultery that miraculously disappeared, making God’s intent very clear. Out of Love for His Messenger, AlLah Decided He Hated stoning too.

It’s horrifying. In the Muslim world, women are being flogged, stoned and killed for being raped, for being pregnant, or even simply for being caught out without their headscarves because men have “tweaked” the laws so far away from AlLah’s intent and the earliest Muslims practice that they do the opposite of what those laws were meant to do. This, from the religion that first declared men and women equal before God, and first created a society that truly had equal justice for all.

Personally, I’m horrified by how far we’ve fallen from the path, but I’m still hopeful, because of God, and Muhammad (peace be upon him).

There is a reason why we have the Quran and the Sunnah. The Quran is a complete book, but it was revealed into a changing world. To understand the message, you need a deep knowledge of history, context and exactly what any particular Ayah did to the Ummah the day it came. If you don’t have that, then for God’s sake ask someone who does before you go killing someone! Because what Muslims are doing out of ignorance is nothing less than an abomination.

Here we go again! Are you saying that if your "authority" says "ok, you have it right, in this case you are allowed to kill them all and let Allah sort ’em out", that this is ok with you? And you have problems with Christians who have done the same thing 3 to 5 hundred years in the past, but not a problem when done by Muslims, as long as they have properly consulted their Imam???

My solution? Non-Muslim and disaffected Muslim “reformers” are calling for Muslims to change Islam so that it’s more like the modern world. Instead, we need to change Islam so it’s more like it was the day it began.

But Doctor, what about the Islamic Supremacism in the Quran? What about overthrowing all man-made governments in order to "free" the world to "choose" to realize they were "born Muslim"? What about all that disparity between men and women and their rights and duties?

Because actually? All the rights, and freedoms, and justice regardless of race, creed or gender that the modern world love so much, our world owes to Muhammad (peace be upon him) the man who brought them into the world first. AlhamdilAllah!

Now that is just silly!  Go read Lysistrata my dear, Doctor.  For that matter Roman Citizens were of all races and religion’s! The only thing that mattered was citizenship, if you had it you were a "Roman", if you didn’t you were not.  Also, it is not sexual equality to be forced to only live out the local social "norm" for your sex as though it is divinely mandated.

If this is the best that "moderate" Islam" can do the rank and file need to replace their leadership with men with hearts instead of calculators of sin and punishment.

Dr Liepert of Calgary Council of Imams Declares Koran History Not Holy Writ


My Dear Virginia, let me introduce you to Dr Liepert; an apologist for Stealth Jihad in Canada who is …

"Dr. David Liepert

…a member of the Calgary Council of Imams who helped craft the Canadian Council of Imams Declaration, and spokesperson for the Muslim Council of Calgary. He is also Vice-President of the Faith of Life Network and author of Muslim, Christian and Jew: Finding a Path to Peace Our Faiths Can Share."

The good Dottore is a skilled dispenser of smoothly crafted phrases designed to skim the edge of truth and lie, while giving an unequivocally false to fact message. Here is my take on his classic Moderate Muslim ™ apologetic in today’s Huffington Post… This article will probably grow several times after I publish it… I will be looking individually at the Imams who signed this document and see how much we can find out of what they say to the Ummah, as opposed to us Kafir.

"Reclaiming Islam from Extremists and Fear-Mongers: Why the Canadian Council of Imams Declaration Matters

Thanks to al Qaeda and other terrorist groups, Islamophobia is at an all-time high."

It always helps a "big Lie" to start it off flat-footed and shamelessly right up front, then hammer away at it as though it is as undisputed as the existence of something called gravity. Once again let us link the representative data from the FBI’s own statistics on hate crimes; I should just put this section of this post on an F-key!

This is the iron skillet calling the almost new aluminum pan black! Let us look at some actual data, instead of opinion shall we Virginia?

6,489,000 Jews in US more or less; 2.2% of the population – CAIR claims that there are 7 million Muslims in the US for, about 2.2 % (is that why the CAIR number is much higher than all other estimate, to equal the Jewish presence? Just a thought.)

So then, Virginia, all we need to do is compare the anti-Islamic crime with the anti-Jewish crime 1 to 1 for us to see who is getting the short end of religious bigotry:

  Incidents Victims Offenders Percentage
All anti-Religion: 1,519 1,732 632 100%
Anti-Jewish 1,013 1,145 353 66%
Anti-Islamic 105 130 85 7%

(Addition 8/11; Please take note Virginia that the anti-Islamic crimes were committed on average by only 1.2 persons per crime while the anti-Jewish crimes were more often group efforts with an average of 2.9 offenders per incident!)

Even if we use the figure for Muslims in the US given by the American Religious Identification Survey of 1.3 million (about a fifth of the CAIR number) gives a weighted comparison of anti-Jewish = 66% and anti-Islamic = 105 incidents times 5 for weighting = 525 out of 1,519 incidents equaling 35%, barely half of the anti-Semitic rate! Q.E.D.

Back to Liepert:

"Violent extremists have succeeded in distorting the common perception of who Muslims really are. Most North Americans now equate Islam with violence, and think Muslims are bent on world domination."

It is hard to think otherwise when the Muslim media, schools, and clergy are virtually under the control of these same violent fundamentalist’s visions of what Islam should be.  Would it matter much if the average Catholic were peaceful in nature if the majority of the clergy from Priests on up were of another opinion regarding things like mercy, humanity and innocence? Wait, it didn’t matter much did it? But they reformed; they reformed!

In passing, do not fail to notice the enforcing of the Me, Victim, You Evil bi-polar attitude.

"In reality, the overwhelming majority of Muslims are an exceptionally…"

Exceptionally? Holy people have a humility before, not only God, but their fellow man as well, co-religionist or not, that transcends the day to day attitudes of the common clay…

I fail utterly to see that trait in the words of this man. Forgive me if I sound "bigoted" to you, but I feel the thing we call Holiness transcends religion; and my experiences in Life have never failed to reinforce that view.

"…peaceful and tolerant people who seek to live in harmony and happiness with their non-Muslim neighbors."

Believe it or not Dr Liepert, I agree with this completely; but as I said, it is the LEADERSHIP that is tainted and corrupt, not the Ummah, but it all amounts to the majority of Islam being seen as cannon fodder against the West.

"But as the saying goes, all it takes for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing."

Again, I totally agree, but despite my known sympathy for the steep learning curve the Ummah faces to break free of the perverted clergy I see that same steep curve as making it MORE important that they DO begin to stand up en mass and get on with it; the curve will only get steeper; the stronger the chain, the more it MUST be broken!

"The Canadian Council of Imams Declaration is a major step by the good people of Islam to stand up and take back their religion and their religion’s public image from fanatics."

I do not see it that way at all; I see the self-same self-serving clergy trying to pull the wool of "moderate" over their Islamist wolfskin; again!

"The members of the Canadian Council of Imams are the scholarly elite of mainstream Islam in Canada, and they decide what Muslims are taught in our mosques."

Like I said, these are the ones that make sure a majority of Mosques dispense Islamist teachings, preaching’s and literature!

I debated a non-Muslim Islamic "consultant" in Virginia last month, who told me that the Quran commands Muslims to fight with Jews and Christians. I replied that the verse he quoted came in response to a rumored army that had gathered in the north bent on Islamophobic genocide. The verse wasn’t telling Muslims when to fight: they marched north expecting a bloody battle to the death. At the time it actually prevented bloodshed by telling Muslims when to stop fighting."

So, the passages of the Koran are merely historical records? They are not to be held as exemplars of behavior or guides for modern Islamic law? Is that you position? Will you preach that position in Mecca on your next Haj? Can I see the video if it survives?

"The "consultant" also quoted a scholarly treatise in support of violent expansionary jihad from the eighteenth century, and I reminded him that most of mainstream eighteenth-century Christianity also perverted the Bible to support the slave trade."

And what if he had quoted a respected, modern Imam’s fatwa defending the very real modern Muslim slavers? Would you have declared that this was not "the traditional way Muslims have seen it"?

"During a different discussion, another so-called expert claimed Muslims were bent on destroying churches. I told her about Caliph Umar, a Muslim warrior who refused the Christian Patriarch’s offer to pray in Jerusalem’s main cathedral after Umar had conquered the city, "so future Muslims would not declare it a mosque, that it remain a church forever."

My good Dottore, you just refuted yourself! This one lone Muslim leader followed his inner humanity and did something to PREVENT the traditional response from the Ummah that would have destroyed and rededicated the Church! Isn’t it amazing Virginia, what an innocent look can make people swallow?

This strikes me with thoughts of a similar quote from about a hundred years ago…

"You can’t say the whole town approved of the lynching of those three boys and their fathers! No Sir! Even the Niggers admit there were no more than three hunnerd people, men, women and children included there, screaming and cheering them on… And you NY boys know right well that this town has a population of 520 as of last July!"

Excuse me while I spit, that left a bad taste in my mouth!

"It all got me wondering whether people who dislike Islam are really the best ones to provide your information about either Muslims or Middle Eastern history."

And someone with a history of seeming lies, distortions and half-truths in favor of a white-washed Islam is?

On to the declaration…


We, the imams who have signed below, hereby affirm and declare the following fundamental points:
1. We believe in the oneness of Allah (God) and in the oneness of humanity and that all the Messengers of God, including the final Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), have taught human beings how to come closer to God and closer to one another. Islam is a religion of nature and humanity, one that teaches that a person cannot be a good Muslim until he/she becomes a good human being. All human beings are equal, and all of them are the children of Adam and Eve (peace be upon them). The best Muslim is the one who is good to his/her family and neighbors and one who avoids harming others with his/her hand or tongue.

[GDw; But the Koran and Sharia define a Good human being as a Muslim, so a non-Muslim is not fully Human until they submit to their inborn Muslimness!]

2. We believe in peaceful coexistence, dialogue, bridge building, and cooperation among all faiths and people for the common good of humanity.

[GDeW; but the Koran, hadith, and Sharia define "the Good of Humanity" as being a world under Sharia!

Islam does not permit the killing of innocent people, regardless of their creed, ethnicity, race, or nationality.

[Nice word, Creed, it side-steps the fact that the Koran demands that to be "religious", you must accept the major tenets of… ta da, ISLAM! Ditto to be "innocent"]

The sanctity of human life overrides the sanctity of religious laws. Islamic rulings do not — and should not — contradict natural laws.

[GDeW; This just says that Islamic law cannot contradict Islam!]

Islam is a religion that promotes peace, justice, equality, dignity, and freedom for all human beings.

Surely, it defines Humans as Good Muslims and Good Muslims as Humans, of course they promote their own welfare! But wait, aren’t they supposed to be all religious and such? Where is the humility?

3. We believe in the preservation of all the necessities of life. Islam upholds the sanctity of religion, life, intellect, family/society, and property.

[GDeW; And defines religion as Islam, family/society as Muslim families and Muslim societies, and property as belonging to the Ummah not the kafir!]

4. We believe that the well-being of our fellow citizens is the well-being of Muslims, and that the well-being of Muslims is the well-being of our fellow citizens.

[GDeW; And Islam does not recognize non-Muslims as fellow citizens! This is explicit in Koran, Hadith and Sharia! The Dhimmi status is the highest a Kafir can hope for in a Muslim society.]

Being law-abiding people is part of the Islamic practice, and following the pristine teachings of Islam leads to good citizenship.

[GDeW; and the pristine teachings tell the Muslim that ALL MANMADE LAWS ARE INVALID BEFORE SHARIA! Good citizenship is ONLY good Muslim Citizenship.]

5. We believe in gender equity [note that – equity, NOT equality; there is nothing in any of the wordxs definitions that talks about equality, only about "fair" judgments under some unstated set of rules, Islamic in this case; we know already about Islamic laws regarding women] and each man and each woman’s divine right to education [as judged by Shari’a standards], social contribution [as judged by Shari’a standards], work [as judged by Shari’a standards], and treatment with respect and dignity [as judged by Shari’a standards]. Men and women complement each other, and healthy [as judged by Shari’a standards] relationships between them are essential to a healthy [as judged by Shari’a standards] society.

6. We believe that it is the right of every individual adult person to determine for themselves their conduct towards and within their society (for example, in matters of dress or good manners), and their personal conduct in matters of faith and belief as well, as long as their conduct does not threaten the common good [as judged by Shari’a standards, NOT by man-made laws]. Likewise, we believe that every society must be allowed to express and celebrate humanity’s profound cultural diversity, as long as the expression of that diversity does not include the compulsion of any individual to violate their own human rights [in other words, does not force them, or tempt them, or allow them to violate their Islamic responsibilities], or their personal values [those who choose to violate Shari’a are either criminally insane or simply evil], or their human [Muslim] nature, or otherwise threaten the common [Islamic] good of all [Islamic] people.

7. We believe and strongly encourage Muslims to seriously engage in civic life and contribute to their communities and society as much as they can.

[GDeW; no doubt, right up to the point where they can seize control of the machinery of State, and declare Shari’a supreme.]

Imam Dr. Hamid Slimi (Canadian Council of Imams/Faith of Life Network)
Imam Ismail Fetic (Bosnian Islamic Centre of Hamilton)
Imam Dr. Arafat Elashi (Scholar & Lecturer in GTA)
Imam Dr. Ziyad Delic (Canadian Islamic Congress, Ottawa)
Imam Habeeb Ali (Canadian Council of Imams, Secretary)
Imam Abdul Hai Patel (Canadian Council of Imams, Interfaith Relations)
Imam Dr. Mohammad Iqbal Al-Nadvi (Alfalah Islamic Center, Oakville)
Imam Hafiz Faizan-ul Haq (West End Islamic Center, Mississauga)
Imam Yusuf Badat (Islamic Foundation of Toronto)
Imam Omar Subedar (The Islamic Society of Peel, Brampton)
Imam Ashraf Baddar (Faith of Life Network)
Imam Abdullah Hatia (Islamic Association of Saskatchewan, Regina)
Imam Mohamed Arif Desai (Masjid Darul Iman, Markham)
Imam Prof. Abdulvehab Hoxha (Albanian Muslim Society of Toronto)
Imam Sikander Ziad Hashmi (Islamic Centre of Kingston)
Imam Mohamed Nafis Bhayat (Jame Masjid, Mississauga)
Imam Mahomed Iqbal Subrathi (Markaz-ul-Islam Masjid, Edmonton, Alberta)
Imam Anver Moallim (Jami Omar – Ottawa)
Imam Michael AbdurRashid Taylor (Islamic Chaplaincy Services Canada)
Imam Dr. Aly Hindy (Salaheddin Islamic Centre, Toronto)
Imam Tarek Abu Noman Mohammad (Islamic Center of Cambridge)
Imam Zamir Ahmed Chohan (Islamic Foundation of Toronto)
Imam Jamal Hammoud (Muslim Council of Calgary)
Imam Abdul Raaoof Kabar (Muslim Council of Calgary)
Imam Ahmad Abdul Kadir (Muslim Council of Calgary)
Imam Hafiz Asim (Brampton Islamic Centre)
Imam Ahmed Ibrahim (Brampton Muslim Community)
Imam Ahmad Kutty (Islamic Institute of Toronto)
Imam Abdool Hamid Akbar (Islamic Institute of Toronto)
Imam Nedzad Hafizovic (Bosnian Islamic Centre, Toronto)
Imam Shabir Ally (Islamic Information Centre, Toronto)
Imam Ayman Al-Taher (International Muslims Organization of Toronto)
Imam Mohamad Khatib (Muslim World League, Toronto)
Imam Muhammad Kamaruzzaman (Danforth Islamic Centre & Baitul Aman Masjid)
Imam Refaat Mohamed (Barrie Mosque)
Imam Alaa Elsayed (Islamic Centre of Canada-ISNA)
Imam Khaled Alazhari (Ottawa Mosque)
Imam Mohammad J. Qazi (Masjid al-Farooq Islamic Centre, Mississauga)